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Feature #688280

Earth 160x90 updated with 89 starting positions.

Added by Rhue of L about 2 months ago. Updated 29 days ago.

Status:
Closed
Priority:
Normal
Category:
General
Target version:
Start date:
Due date:
% Done:

100%


Description

This is the Earth 160x90 with 89 starting positions mapped (originally had 39) and a slightly changed Ireland and Iceland. I've tried to balance the positions out, but it wasn't possible everywhere, some areas are a bit denser, some a bit less. So situations where someone starts the map with 4 or 6 players and they all spawn very close is sadly possible, but the previous version also had this problem. Maybe the algorithm which selects random positions out of the pool could be updated to take into account the distance between them?

earth-160x90-v3.sav.gz (10.5 KB) Rhue of L, 2017-08-04 12:23 PM

0004-Add-startpositions-for-up-to-89-nations-to-large-ear.patch View (7.71 KB) Marko Lindqvist, 2017-08-04 02:45 PM


Subtasks

Feature #688799: Earth 160x90 scenario updated with 89 starting positions for Versions 2.5.3 and 3.0ClosedMarko Lindqvist


Related issues

Related to Freeciv - Feature #688329: Drop misleading "version information" from filenames of supplied scenarios Closed

History

#1 Updated by Marko Lindqvist about 2 months ago

As a patch against "v2" file. We don't want two parallel versions of the scenario. The version number in the filename is not sensible at all -> I'll open a new ticket about getting rid of those.

#2 Updated by Marko Lindqvist about 2 months ago

  • Related to Feature #688329: Drop misleading "version information" from filenames of supplied scenarios added

#3 Updated by David Fernandez (bard) about 2 months ago

Good job! thank you.
I think it is an improvement compared to previous version (with start positions made by me).

It'd be great if you could include more nations from the core set, although most were missing in previous version too. The only ones missing in your version are:
Celtic
Swedish
Songhai
Thai
Polynesian
Taino
Portuguese
Dutch
Danish
Austrian
Polish
Babylonian
Byzantine
Sumerian

There is a typo error in "Innuit". It should be "Inuit".

#4 Updated by Rhue of L about 2 months ago

The problem with including all of them is that many start too close to each other. I wanted to avoid a situation in which two civilisations start two or three tiles away from each other and one has to move away to settle. In places like Europe, where there's already a shortage of space (if you play with 89 players), if I included the Swedes, Danes, Poles, Portuguese, Dutch or Austrians, not only wouldn't they be able to settle where they started, but there would be no room left to move either, so they would end up not being able to settle their capital at all. What do you think? I sure could map them in, but the reason I chose the Lithuanians over the Poles was that the Poles started fairly close to the Germans, and only when you put them in Warsaw - the Polish capital however in the game is Krakow (which would be even closer to them and the Poles would have to move away a lot). Same with all the other ones, Amsterdam I believe is 2 tiles from Paris and so on. So it's a dilemma, I'd love to map all of those civs in, and it's nice if someone is Dutch and wants to play as their homeland, but what happens if they set the AI civs to random and get France and Germany as their neighbours?

I also wanted to do Iceland, but I wanted to avoid a situation in which somebody is playing with 4 AIs and Ireland, Iceland, Scotland and England get drawn. The more countries like that I map in, the bigger the risk only they are going to spawn when somebody is playing with few AIs. That is the reason I removed the Taino - I think you placed them in Venezuela, but their capital is actually in Puerto Rico, which is 2 tiles large. Polynesians, likewise, you placed in New Guinea, but their capital is somewhere on some far away Pacific island (I don't remember which one). I also moved the Inuit's starting position to correspond to their in-game capital.

This also proved to be problematic with some countries that have slightly odd terrain requirements for their capitals, like Canada (or the States), which won't get Ottawa (or anything close to it) to be its capital no matter what. I wanted to be as historically accurate as possible.

I also had the dilemma of what to do if a country should have its capital one tile away from another one. In some cases, I used one starting position for both of them, but for instance in the case of Georgia and Azerbaijan, it would be a bit odd if Azerbaijan started next to the Black Sea. What do you think about all this?
And thanks for spotting the typo.

#5 Updated by David Fernandez (bard) about 2 months ago

I agree about the european core nations. I said in my post to try to include "all" core nations, but I wanted to say to try to include "more" core nations, if possible. Anyway, I like you decision to keep some minimal distance between starting positions (I did the same), and to avoid nations that start on little islands (I placed some of them in near continents, like Taino and Polynesians, where their culture could have started, but I agree it is better to respect the capital of the nation file).

I also had the dilemma of what to do if a country should have its capital one tile away from another one. In some cases, I used one starting position for both of them, but for instance in the case of Georgia and Azerbaijan, it would be a bit odd if Azerbaijan started next to the Black Sea. What do you think about all this?

I faced similar dilemmas for my scenarios, and I used to include in the same starting position nations with capitals only one tile away from another, because the map is not that good anyway, and there is always some error in the placement of a capital, up to 1 tile. Although I'm not expert in history nor geography. It could be more helpful the opinion of the developer that creates the nation files.

As I said, I think your version is an improvement, and it could be included as it is (once Inuit fixed).

#6 Updated by Rhue of L about 2 months ago

Yeah, I know the AI tends to move its starting position. But suppose someone is Georgian, picks Georgia, but starts in Azerbaijan instead. Then they'd have to move, wasting 1 turn of science and production, or they wouldn't notice it initially and then be pissed of at having their capital in Azerbaijan. So I avoided doing that for modern countries that are close to each other.
I guess I could add Songhai in, where Mali is. And I'll get the typo fixed.

#7 Updated by Marko Lindqvist about 2 months ago

The new patches are in Feature #688799

#8 Updated by Marko Lindqvist about 2 months ago

  • Status changed from Resolved to Closed
  • Assignee set to Marko Lindqvist

#9 Updated by Jacob Nevins about 1 month ago

The problem with including all of them is that many start too close to each other. [...]

Feature #690313 has some vague thoughts about mitigating this problem in the game engine.

#10 Updated by Jacob Nevins 29 days ago

  • Target version changed from 3.0.0 to 2.6.0

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